ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning

thanks

ADDS

Bob Gardner

"Fred Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>
> thanks
>
>

"Fred Wolf" > wrote in news:zLWdnWCoxsbOvAjcRVn-
:

> ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>
> thanks
>
>

aviationweather.gov

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On 11/12/04 2:47 PM, Fred Wolf wrote the following:
> ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>
> thanks
>
>
This is my favorite surface analysis. It shows the frontal symbology, nexrad,
and satellite imagery all on one map.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalWide.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=SurfaceAnalysis&prodnav=none

(You may have to cut and paste the url in pieces if your newsreader does line
wraps.)

Bob Gardner ) wrote:

> ADDS

Ditto.


--
Peter

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:47:13 -0700, "Fred Wolf" >
wrote:

>ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>
>thanks

METARs/TAFs/Icing/Winds aloft
ADDS: http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/

RADAR:
Intellicast: http://www.intellicast.com

Weather depictions (current, 12-48hr)
Unisys weather: http://weather.unisys.com

-Nathan

Here's a fellow RVator with a site with ROUTE based decoded METARS and
TAFs

www.rvproject.com/wx/

http;//www.rvproject.com/wx/

I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
briefing.


"Fred Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>
> thanks
>
>

OtisWinslow wrote:
> I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
> briefing.

Legal? Maybe you mean that you think there is an audit trail, so if necessary
you could prove that you actually got a briefing. I think that too, but I'm not
sure why. I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers' web sites that says
they provide that service (audit trail).

In answer to the OP's question:
I like to start with a big picture like from http://www.weather.com, then I go
to http://www.aopa.org/membrs/wx and look at their graphics products, then to
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov to poke around, then
http://www.enflight.com for DUAT access. I've grown accustomed to their
presentation of the DUAT data and I like it.

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> OtisWinslow wrote:
>> I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
>> briefing.
>
> Legal? Maybe you mean that you think there is an audit trail, so if
> necessary you could prove that you actually got a briefing. I think that
> too, but I'm not sure why. I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers'
> web sites that says they provide that service (audit trail).
>

Isn't the "session number" and the time/date information that's (usually) in
the upper left hand side of the screen the way in which either you and/or
the FAA can prove that you used DUATS?

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL

What, exactly, is a "legal briefing"?


On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:26:51 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote:

>"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
>> OtisWinslow wrote:
>>> I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
>>> briefing.
>>
>> Legal? Maybe you mean that you think there is an audit trail, so if
>> necessary you could prove that you actually got a briefing. I think that
>> too, but I'm not sure why. I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers'
>> web sites that says they provide that service (audit trail).
>>
>
>Isn't the "session number" and the time/date information that's (usually) in
>the upper left hand side of the screen the way in which either you and/or
>the FAA can prove that you used DUATS?
>
>Jay Beckman
>Chandler, AZ
>PP-ASEL
>

wrote:

> What, exactly, is a "legal briefing"?

AFSS or DUATS. It's a standard weather briefing.

Newps wrote:
>
>
> wrote:
>
>> What, exactly, is a "legal briefing"?
>
>
> AFSS or DUATS. It's a standard weather briefing.
>

That's no less or more legal than anything else.

You're screwed if you don't get all the appropriate information.
The fact that a government or government-contracted provider was
contacted and they failed to provide the information will not
save your hide in an enforcement action.

If we're talking weather DUAT/FSS isn't more enlightened than
many other outlets. Where do you think the FSS gets it's weather
from? (I'll give you a hint, it's not another government agency).

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What, exactly, is a "legal briefing"?
>>
>>
>>
>> AFSS or DUATS. It's a standard weather briefing.
>>
>
> That's no less or more legal than anything else.

I remember the FAA saying some other outlets were now legal, don't
recall what they are.

>
> You're screwed if you don't get all the appropriate information.
> The fact that a government or government-contracted provider was
> contacted and they failed to provide the information will not
> save your hide in an enforcement action.

What they give you is proof. Having said that I only get a provable
briefing when I'm on the road and away from home. 95% of my flying I
simply look out the window. I will look at the TAF's on NOAA.gov the
night before but that's about it. We don't have TFR's here except for
fires and if the Prez is going to show up I'll know it several days
before the press does. If a runway is closed I hope they put X's on the
runway like they're required to.


>
> If we're talking weather DUAT/FSS isn't more enlightened than
> many other outlets. Where do you think the FSS gets it's weather
> from? (I'll give you a hint, it's not another government agency).

I use NOAA because I like how it's presented. I occasionally use ADDS
for a cross country because I like the JAVA app. I use the Intellicast
surface analysis chart and radar loops. I use a Unisys VFR/MVFR chart.

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
....snip...
> Where do you think the FSS gets it's weather
> from? (I'll give you a hint, it's not another government agency).

Okay, I'll bite.

I would have said http://aviationweather.gov/

Is that not a government agency???

Newps wrote:

> I remember the FAA saying some other outlets were now legal, don't
> recall what they are.

To my knowledge no such assertion has ever been made by the FAA.
Noncommercial operators have always been free to do what they thought
was prudent. Commercial operators must follow their manual/opspec.

>
> What they give you is proof. Having said that I only get a provable
> briefing when I'm on the road and away from home. 95% of my flying I
> simply look out the window. I will look at the TAF's on NOAA.gov the
> night before but that's about it. We don't have TFR's here except for
> fires and if the Prez is going to show up I'll know it several days
> before the press does. If a runway is closed I hope they put X's on the
> runway like they're required to.

What proof does this give you? I'll reiterate what I said. Even
if you call the FSS and they DO NOT give you the TFR info, that will
not save your ass in an enforcement action.

Icebound wrote:

>
> Okay, I'll bite.
>
> I would have said http://aviationweather.gov/
>
> Is that not a government agency???
>

Kavouras was the provider, but I think they switched to
someone else.

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>
>> I remember the FAA saying some other outlets were now legal, don't
>> recall what they are.
>
>
> To my knowledge no such assertion has ever been made by the FAA.

There are websites that the FAA said are legal. The problem is you'd
have to print them out to prove you were there. Nobody's going to do that.


>
> What proof does this give you? I'll reiterate what I said. Even
> if you call the FSS and they DO NOT give you the TFR info, that will
> not save your ass in an enforcement action.

It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't.
But if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the
proper info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot the
wrong info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.

> It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
> common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
> regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't. But
> if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the proper
> info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot the wrong
> info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.

Not the way things work on this side of the country.

In article >, "OtisWinslow"
> writes:

>ples list your most usefull weather sites for use in Flt planning
>>
>> thanks

I use DUAT for weather maps and DUATS for briefing and flight plan.

Chuck

Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>> It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
>> common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
>> regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't.
>> But if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the
>> proper info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot
>> the wrong info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.
>
>
> Not the way things work on this side of the country.


So you have these problems AND you're a blue state? My condolences.

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>>
>>> It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is
>>> fairly common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move
>>> with some regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they
>>> shouldn't. But if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not
>>> given the proper info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell
>>> a pilot the wrong info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has
>>> also happened.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not the way things work on this side of the country.
>
>
>
> So you have these problems AND you're a blue state? My condolences.

Nope, I'm in a RED state. And it's the facist policies of the RED
administration that's causing the problems.

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> OtisWinslow wrote:
> > I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
> > briefing.
>
> Legal? Maybe you mean that you think there is an audit trail, so if
necessary
> you could prove that you actually got a briefing. I think that too, but
I'm not
> sure why. I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers' web sites that
says
> they provide that service (audit trail).

From the DUATS faq section:

http://www.duats.com/faq.html#legalbrief

When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by calling
Flight Service?
Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route briefing
which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded by DUATS, and
your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need arise. (Of course,
this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own DUATS Access Code or
Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for by the FAA, and is
certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live Flight Service Specialist
for pre-flight briefings.

Brad Zeigler wrote:
> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
>> I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers' web sites that
>> says they provide that service (audit trail).
>
> From the DUATS faq section:
>
> http://www.duats.com/faq.html#legalbrief
>
> When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
> pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by calling
> Flight Service?
> Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route briefing
> which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded by DUATS, and
> your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need arise. (Of course,
> this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own DUATS Access Code or
> Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for by the FAA, and is
> certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live Flight Service Specialist
> for pre-flight briefings.

Thanks, Brad! Dave

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
>> It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
>> common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
>> regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't. But
>> if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the proper
>> info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot the wrong
>> info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.
>
> Not the way things work on this side of the country.

Really? Is there any documented case of a successful enforcement action
against a pilot who violated a TFR because a briefer failed to mention the
TFR when asked?

Thanks,
Gary

Well .. why does it say on the DUATS FAQ that it is. They lying? They're
paid
by the FAA. I would contend that having a DUATS briefing would sure go
a long way to saving your hide, but the FAA can do anything they want with
you if you bust a reg. My choice is to have the briefing on my side.

We're required to make ourselves aware of all available information relevant
to a flight. I look at ADDS, print a Duats briefing, check NOTAMS, check
the graphical TFRs, talk to Center and Flight Watch along the way. So far
that's kept me pretty aware
of all the things that might pop up.

So I'm not sure, Ron, where you're going with this. You're telling us all
the
things we've been taught are crap and we'll just get busted anyway. With
all your insight .. I'd sure like to have you list what you think each and
everyone
of us should do before we fly so we'll be totally legal.



"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Newps wrote:
>>
>>
> That's no less or more legal than anything else.
>
> You're screwed if you don't get all the appropriate information.
> The fact that a government or government-contracted provider was
> contacted and they failed to provide the information will not
> save your hide in an enforcement action.
>

OtisWinslow wrote:
> Well .. why does it say on the DUATS FAQ that it is. They lying? They're
> paid
> by the FAA. I would contend that having a DUATS briefing would sure go
> a long way to saving your hide, but the FAA can do anything they want with
> you if you bust a reg. My choice is to have the briefing on my side.
>
It will go NOWHERE TO SAVE YOUR HIDE if you violate one of the TSA-based
restrictions. DUAT can claim what ever they want...the truth of the matter
is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions regardless
of what FSS, DUAT, or ATC tells you.

Welcome to the post-911 airspace system.

>t will go NOWHERE TO SAVE YOUR HIDE if you violate one of the TSA-based
>restrictions. DUAT can claim what ever they want...the truth of the matter
>is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions regardless

I would not worry about it. I call FSS file IFR and stay in contact with ATC.
Cannot do more that that.
Comments appreciated
Hank

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...

> is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions
> regardless
> of what FSS, DUAT, or ATC tells you.
>

You just repeated what I said .. the FAA can do what they want to us. So are
you simply advocating we give up flying? I asked for what YOU in all
your wisdom think we should do to keep from flying into a TFR and being
busted since you've announced that no one in the govt can tell us where
these secret TFRs are with any reliablity and we're responsible for what
we don't know and no one can tell us. Who do you advocate we should
talk to? You've told us we're all stupid for relying on the normal sources
of info .. clue us in there, SuperPilot. What do you know that we don't????